Merseyrail

[CX06 EBK (Administrator)]

RE: Merseyrail
If they're fit for purpose then why not? I am not sure many passengers actually know the true age of the 507/8s or would if they were in a presentable condition inside and out. I know people who still think the refurbished stock was actually new and I'm sure they're not alone.

[wirralbus]

RE: Merseyrail
Oh if they just rework these units then , youll know that we arent worth spending any money on and will eventually just get the next london rejected cast offs.

[jtd508110]

RE: Merseyrail
The difference between this and IOW line stock would be that Merseyrail stock would probably receive new AC traction motors and braking systems to increase reliability and decrease maintenance costs. It also would hopefully mean more job security for the guards

[SNL 824]

RE: Merseyrail

(15/01/2014 18:19)CX06 EBK Wrote:  If they're fit for purpose then why not? I am not sure many passengers actually know the true age of the 507/8s or would if they were in a presentable condition inside and out. I know people who still think the refurbished stock was actually new and I'm sure they're not alone.

I remember riding on the 1938 503s and the 1956 stock when it was less than ten years old. Consequently I always regard the 507s and 508s as "new"!

[jtd508110]

RE: Merseyrail
Some things that make me oppose full refurbishment/re-tractioning/life extension of the 507/8's.

1) Not enough of them to meet demand. Services will become overcrowded.

Solution: either new build stock with about 65 3 car sets. Alternatively if 507/8's stay, aquire 313's from Southern/FCC and re-traction to same standard.

2) Expansion projects stifled by no dual voltage capabilities on current fleet.

Solution: pretty similar to above. New stock with these capabilities or 313's (from FCC as they have pantograph, although in poor condition compared to Southern examples-dont know how easy to reattach to Southern units) Maybe even swap some 508's for 313's that southern only use on 3rd rail and use these units on expansion projects? Staff training would be quite easy for that.

3) Their "incompatibility" with loop line tunnels. (Example: derailment of 508124 a few years back)

Solution: I can't see an easy fix for this. Dont know if bogie design or track type can be changed to work better with PEP units, although don't know of any current production stock that would do any better. Also, if longer trains were introduced with inclusion of 313's, this would increase track wear in loop system.

4) Corrosion! Body work on some units is pretty bad and not sure how well they will hold up even with protection.

Solution: engineer new pannels to worst affected areas of bodies (although this is an additional cost)

Now what makes me want to keep 507/8's on Merseyside

1) Despite their age, they are performing pretty well. Maybe it is due to their simplicity and hard work the staff put in

2) Any new stock might be designed with DOO in mind putting jobs and customer experience as well as safety in jeopardy

3) Probably a lot cheaper to refurb these units that buy new ones that will be littered with teething problems

4) There's not too much wrong with them at the moment, and are undergoing a refresh. Im sure with corrosion protection, up to date interior and facilities as well as a decent traction package, they will be able to soldier on.

So on balance, id like to see them refurbished and do a fair few miles yet! I would be interested in finding out how many miles one of them units has done in their lifetime! Got to be very high!


Jtd

[X782 NWX]

RE: Merseyrail
I wouldnt mind if they got refurbished again, decent units. Most of the younger people seem to be under the impression that the refurbishment resulted in a all new train anyway so surely the same would happen again lol! Would love to see the 507/508s (especially 507s) go on for another 10 yrs at least!

[wirralbus]

RE: Merseyrail
One of the problems that was picked up earlier in this thread is that you are hamstrung by the amount of 507/8 available when it comes to long term plans to either strengthen services or even to extend the network.

[SNL 824]

RE: Merseyrail

(16/01/2014 21:29)wirralbus Wrote:  One of the problems that was picked up earlier in this thread is that you are hamstrung by the amount of 507/8 available when it comes to long term plans to either strengthen services or even to extend the network.

Merseyrail had their chance to refurbish the other units that were in store and blew it.

[Sprinterdriver]

RE: Merseyrail
A couple of the 508/3's were brought up speculatively by the leasing company after withdrawal by London Overground but the deal couldn't be done.

The figures obviously didn't add up.

SD.

[wirralbus]

RE: Merseyrail
Think that because there was a difference how much needed to be done to the 508/3 units to get them to the standard of the existing 508/1 fleet they coulodnt come up with a package that would be financially viable .