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RE: Route History - MPTE1955 - 24/05/2019 11:23
Gillmoss operated 53/55 after the closure of Walton, when they of course took over 20/21
RE: Route History - teenagewasteland - 25/05/2019 18:19
(24/05/2019 07:52)moreton407 Wrote: Don't forget that GM Buses operated on the 284 during their war with MTL.
In 1976, there were the S1/S2/S3/X27/X37 running the Skelhorne Street-Southport via Crosby series of routes. The first major change was when the Waterloo Interchange opened in January 1977, and S1 and S3 were withdrawn. S4 was introduced between Freshfield Grapes Hotel and Waterloo, but was extended to Skelhorne Street at the peaks. Then in October 1978, S2 and X37 were withdrawn, probably because of the success of the improved Merseyrail service between Liverpool and Southport, and S5 was introduced between Freshfield station and Skelhorne Street. Both S4/S5 were fully extended to Skelhorne Street as all-day services. A connection at Formby police station was possible between S4/S5 and local 10/17/19 if one still wanted to travel by local bus between Liverpool and Southport. In fact, Ribble took a part share in 10/17/19 routes to shore up their guaranteed mileage after losing the S2, and it wasn't uncommon to see the odd Southport-based Ribble National on these services.
RE: Route History - Walton 46 - 27/05/2019 19:29
I've just seen a timetable for the 56/56B/156 dated 5th September 1988. At this point, the 56 had been extended from Netherton to Bootle via Dunnings Bridge Road and Linacre Road. Anyone know when this extension occurred and how long it lasted? Apparently it had also operated as a circular but I have no further details to hand
RE: Route History - MTL0201 - 28/05/2019 04:46
Come to think of it my February 1988 Liverpool map has 56A/56B listed as Bootle/Netherton-Pier Head Circular, the Netherton-City Centre via Bootle route was the old 28 which was withdrawn at d-reg, unfortunately i don't know when this section was withdrawn, & how long it lasted
RE: Route History - Gillmoss 0324 - 28/05/2019 06:54
(28/05/2019 04:46)MTL0201 Wrote: Come to think of it my February 1988 Liverpool map has 56A/56B listed as Bootle/Netherton-Pier Head Circular, the Netherton-City Centre via Bootle route was the old 28 which was withdrawn at d-reg, unfortunately i don't know when this section was withdrawn, & how long it lasted
I'd forgotten/didn't know the 56's did a circular route via Bootle. I've always known them as the more straightforward 56 route from Bank Hall via Melrose Road/Southport Road/Netherton Way etc. so makes me think they got revised around 1988/89.
Speaking of which when Walton depot closed around June 89 did any of the brand new F-YLV Metrobuses ever operate out of there briefly? I know all this batch were at Gillmoss but I have a hazy memory of some of these being on Walton routes just before the garage closed?
Generally before the closure did Walton operate any other commercial routes than the 20/21/21A, 25, 53, 55/55A/55B, 56 as they're the only ones I can remember them having back then?
Gillmoss took on the 20/21/21A, 53, 55/55A/55B and Green Lane took on the 25 and 56 with the 56's getting interworked with the 11's. Fleetwise I think Walton's older Atlantean's went to Gillmoss with the newer W to A reg ones along with the last Atlantean 1070/B926KWM going to Green Lane.
When the July 91 review happened the 25's got transferred to Garston and again not 100% sure on this but wasn't there a 25A variant which ran to Maghull as well? The 25's also had their route which skirted the city centre tinkered with around this time too which I think saw it serve the Gyratory rather than cut off at the Royal Hospital and it was one of the first ex-Merseybus routes which got transferred to Mersey Rider in 1993 although I think it was ran out of Gillmoss - who I think ran it from 1992 onwards, rather than the re-opened Speke depot at that time? Don't know exactly when but the 25's were gone by 1994/95 - still the original 25 route could be workable today as it would by-pass much of the city centre traffic you get and would provide some handy links we don't really have now.
The 12/13's were Gillmoss routes throughout their time with Merseybus/MTL. It was only when Arriva purchased MTL and the Competition Commission took an interest in the acquisition that Arriva transferred them and the 14's to Green Lane in April 2000 before the order to dispose of Gillmoss.
Interesting stuff about the Southport - Liverpool routes too. I know this like other routes on the Merseyrail network got altered to encourage use of the trains with feeder routes like the 15* network in Kirkby and the M* routes in Maghull. I'm fairly certain Tyne & Wear adopted a similar feeder bus route approach when the Metro opened there too. I'm sure before de-reg apart from the long distance routes which ran from Middlesbrough/Durham - Newcastle etc. routes in Gateshead terminated at the Interchange and you'd have to use the Metro on to Newcastle. I think some routes in Newcastle also got altered to become feeders to the Metro too and wasn't Heworth Interchange in Gateshead built for that reason too?
I suppose more recently if Merseytram got built this might have have been the plan for the established bus corridors in Liverpool. Mind you if the operator of Merseytram was competing with at the time Arriva/CMT/GTL etc. would these operators have been willing to work with/or compete against Merseytram? We've seen been both approaches with bus operators running against trams in the UK recently.
RE: Route History - MTL0201 - 28/05/2019 12:14
My late 80s/1990 bus maps don't have a 25 variant going to Maghull, 25 went Garston-Old Roan, interestingly at d-reg the 25 wasn't registered by Merseybus, so Merseytravel stepped in, tendered the 25 as 125, initially operated by Crosville, not sure of the operators after Crosville closed the Liverpool depot, late 80s Merseybus introduced the 25 Garston-Old Roan, & my bus maps don't have the 25 serving the gyrotory, may have done by the time it was withdrawn though, although i seem to remember the 25 going straight down Lime Street & not calling at the gyrotory at first, the traditional 25 route though was via Upper Parliament Street-Grove Street & Crown Street, the 25 before d-reg was Aigburth Vale-Walton.
At d-reg the 46 Penny Lane-Walton was renumbered 52/52A, extended to Old Roan 52, & Maghull 52A, the route followed the old 30 to Old Road, 52A though turned onto Dunnings Bridge Road then to Maghull Westway
The 30 to has had interesting changes, most of the time 30A Netherton Village-Pier Head the outer turning circle was on Northern Perimeter Road, take a look next time you get the 55 as it's still there, 30C was introduced mid 70s Crosby-Pier Head but lasted a few years. At d-reg the 30 wasn't registered so Merseytravel introduced a 130 but only Pier Head-Everton Valley, another route Crosville gained the tender for[d-reg was an interesting time as you then had companies operating out of traditional areas]. Merseybus introduced the 30 Pier Head-Old Roan with 30A Pier Head-Maghull 30A followed the 52A to Maghull, 30A didn't last long, neither did the 30 as the route became Merseytravel tender 130 again, 30 was reintroduced with evening & Sunday 130 & there have been a few operators over the years, oh & traditional 30 route was via the current 21
At d-reg 12/13 was moved to Gillmoss, until 91, interworked with the 14, rather bizarrely even though the 12/13 interworked the 14[with Gillmoss depot being almost over the road from the 14 terminus] driver changes often took place top of Stockbridge Lane & around Waterpark Drive, drivers would use the M57 to get from Gillmoss to the change point. The 91 changes the 12/13 were one of the few routes that escaped being merged, & terminus moved to Central Bus Station, when Central Bus Station was rebuilt 12/13 moved to Water Street/James Street
RE: Route History - MPTE1955 - 28/05/2019 12:33
There was a 25/52 that went to Maghull, they also served Asda Aintree after de-reg, it used to go under the bridge at Old roan Station and turn left towards Asda. They used Nationals that had left GM at de-reg. Reliability was awful and not sure how long it lasted but wasnt that long.
RE: Route History - Gillmoss 0324 - 29/05/2019 06:41
The 30's were an odd route which seemed to come/go a few times after de-reg.
Historically the 30 like the 26/27 was one of the routes MPTE experimented with Autofare exact fare equipment in the early 80's which must've got abandoned pre de-reg.
I didn't know Merseybus had a go on it in the late 80's must've have been a route they commercialised after the demise of Crosville, must have been gone by late 88/89 as I can't remember Walton running a 30 service before they closed that June.
Blue Triangle had a go on the 30's in the early 90's with a varied fleet which used amongst over things their reacquired ex-MPTE/Manx 'Jumbo' Atlantean's alongside new K-Reg Pointer Dart's.
When they were acquired by MTL in 94 Mersey Rider ran the 30 for a few months before it went over to Fareway who interworked it with the F3 and that arrangement continued when MTL closed Fareway in 97 and merged it into Gillmoss.
Not sure when these 30's got withdrawn but I know they were still running by the late 90's so I've got the feeling they survived up to MTL's takeover by Arriva could be wrong.
Ace Travel brought the 30 back in the mid 2000's for a couple of years, running via Netherfield Road and mainly using Optare Solo's. Again not 100% but didn't they have the Merseytravel contract for the 130's back then too?
Speaking of the 130 that's had a fair few operators in it's time too. I didn't know it was one of the Crosville routes they operated for Merseytravel after de-reg, but Merseybus (GL), Fareway, CMT Buses, Supertravel, Cumfybus and a fair few others probably have all had a go on there over the years too until it disappeared a few years ago. I suppose Fareway buses must've been a weird sight in Dingle especially when they had the pre-MTL yellow/blue livery too.
RE: Route History - Walton 46 - 29/05/2019 08:20
(29/05/2019 06:41)Gillmoss 0324 Wrote: The 30's were an odd route which seemed to come/go a few times after de-reg.
Historically the 30 like the 26/27 was one of the routes MPTE experimented with Autofare exact fare equipment in the early 80's which must've got abandoned pre de-reg.
I didn't know Merseybus had a go on it in the late 80's must've have been a route they commercialised after the demise of Crosville, must have been gone by late 88/89 as I can't remember Walton running a 30 service before they closed that June.
Blue Triangle had a go on the 30's in the early 90's with a varied fleet which used amongst over things their reacquired ex-MPTE/Manx 'Jumbo' Atlantean's alongside new K-Reg Pointer Dart's.
When they were acquired by MTL in 94 Mersey Rider ran the 30 for a few months before it went over to Fareway who interworked it with the F3 and that arrangement continued when MTL closed Fareway in 97 and merged it into Gillmoss.
Not sure when these 30's got withdrawn but I know they were still running by the late 90's so I've got the feeling they survived up to MTL's takeover by Arriva could be wrong.
Ace Travel brought the 30 back in the mid 2000's for a couple of years, running via Netherfield Road and mainly using Optare Solo's. Again not 100% but didn't they have the Merseytravel contract for the 130's back then too?
Speaking of the 130 that's had a fair few operators in it's time too. I didn't know it was one of the Crosville routes they operated for Merseytravel after de-reg, but Merseybus (GL), Fareway, CMT Buses, Supertravel, Cumfybus and a fair few others probably have all had a go on there over the years too until it disappeared a few years ago. I suppose Fareway buses must've been a weird sight in Dingle especially when they had the pre-MTL yellow/blue livery too.
The 30 started as Liverpool Corporation route between the City Centre and Aintree via Netherfield Road North/South. Not sure when it started but it is included in a 1960 Corpy timetable book I own. It was later extended to Netherton and in the late 70s/possibly early 80s, there was a 30/30A; one going to Old Roan and one going to Crosby via Thornton. Not sure what happened after d-reg but it re-emerged under Merseybus operating via the former Corpy 2 route between City Centre and Netherton via Scotland Road
RE: Route History - motormayhem1 - 29/05/2019 08:31
GTL Aintree depot ran a 30 route between the city centre and Old Roan as i remember doing it when i use to work there.