(29/11/2012 22:03)gilesbus1 Wrote:  The vehicle situation has changed so I understand at least some of the cascaded Scottish Dart SLF's are not now coming to Wigan are instead going to Birkenhead and Chester, some more MAN's have been sourced from Manchester's own reserves and will go to Wigan, and further new vehicles are expected later in addition to the 14 already expected.

In regards to deckers that is an open question, what now seems possible is that a batch of Enviro400's as expected will cascade to Hull and possibly in return there batch of Plaxton President Tridents may go to Wigan, they where originally new to Manchester in anycase so the layout is right for TfGM contracts.

It is unlikely there will be any need for any further deckers as the openning of the Leigh Guided Busway in 2014 will mean all of the GEmini's become redundant then as its to be operated entirely by saloons and after that date Wigan will only have a need in terms of deckers for older ones for school work.

(29/11/2012 22:08)gemini6491 Wrote:  

(29/11/2012 22:03)gilesbus1 Wrote:  The vehicle situation has changed so I understand at least some of the cascaded Scottish Dart SLF's are not now coming to Wigan are instead going to Birkenhead and Chester, some more MAN's have been sourced from Manchester's own reserves and will go to Wigan, and further new vehicles are expected later in addition to the 14 already expected.

In regards to deckers that is an open question, what now seems possible is that a batch of Enviro400's as expected will cascade to Hull and possibly in return there batch of Plaxton President Tridents may go to Wigan, they where originally new to Manchester in anycase so the layout is right for TfGM contracts.

It is unlikely there will be any need for any further deckers as the openning of the Leigh Guided Busway in 2014 will mean all of the GEmini's become redundant then as its to be operated entirely by saloons and after that date Wigan will only have a need in terms of deckers for older ones for school work.

That's your opinion for now, but who's to say stagecoach's lower prices and better running than first as well as new vehicles won't get people back on the buses in Wigan? I could see deckers working for the 600/540 routes if they get any busier than they currently are. No point speculating for now, time will tell and deckers will still be needed to operate the 32/33/x34 for the next few years. Also on the website with links posted previously by SF07, they state there will be 30 new buses and 30 cascaded buses initially.

(29/11/2012 22:23)gilesbus1 Wrote:  

(29/11/2012 22:08)gemini6491 Wrote:  

(29/11/2012 22:03)gilesbus1 Wrote:  The vehicle situation has changed so I understand at least some of the cascaded Scottish Dart SLF's are not now coming to Wigan are instead going to Birkenhead and Chester, some more MAN's have been sourced from Manchester's own reserves and will go to Wigan, and further new vehicles are expected later in addition to the 14 already expected.

In regards to deckers that is an open question, what now seems possible is that a batch of Enviro400's as expected will cascade to Hull and possibly in return there batch of Plaxton President Tridents may go to Wigan, they where originally new to Manchester in anycase so the layout is right for TfGM contracts.

It is unlikely there will be any need for any further deckers as the openning of the Leigh Guided Busway in 2014 will mean all of the GEmini's become redundant then as its to be operated entirely by saloons and after that date Wigan will only have a need in terms of deckers for older ones for school work.

That's your opinion for now, but who's to say stagecoach's lower prices and better running than first as well as new vehicles won't get people back on the buses in Wigan? I could see deckers working for the 600/540 routes if they get any busier than they currently are. No point speculating for now, time will tell and deckers will still be needed to operate the 32/33/x34 for the next few years. Also on the website with links posted previously by SF07, they state there will be 30 new buses and 30 cascaded buses initially.

Well they will have a job considering the prices are stated as not changing????

Yes deckers may appear but if things stay as they are there is no need for new deckers.

The 16 other new buses are Enviro Enviro300's sourced from a diverted order from elsewhere.

The MAN's highlighted for transfer internally are from the S---TRJ/T---TND etc batches.

All Olympians and Arrows are not expected to last that long but will last initially until further vehicles are sourced.

(29/11/2012 23:11)gilesbus1 Wrote:  Well lets look at it again, yes they may lower fares in real terms, by cutting them to teh same level as Stagecoach Manchester, but if you live in Leigh in real terms costs will be higher then as you will have to buy both operators tickets if you wish to travel accross town eg Lowton to Bolton or Atherton to Abram being examples, therefore passenger numbers may fall at that stage unless Stagecoach have ideas of running over them which I don't thing they do.

I would also in terms of your decker opinion say that the reason slaoons are used in anycase despite on some routes there being low numbers of travellers is because a significant proportion travellers in the Wigan area are of pension age. Deckers are used on Manchester services where it is practical to do so and as extra's. Regular running of them on services like the 600 and the 540 really wouldn't offer much advantage. However if there was ever an idea to merge up routes to offer something different then yes there may be a case. We aren't talking about the sort of high frequency routes that other First depots had that run into Mnachester where masses of deckers are needed on high frequency's if you look at the 600 most of the journeys between Leigh and Golborne on Monday to Friday day time run with half loads, hardly the ingreadance for a 12 minute decker service.

The real reason for Stagecoach's acquisition is strategic not about whats at Wigan now, and its a matter of waiting to see probably in future years what those plans are, and no I won't speculate on what they are as I have not the foggest idea, those are idea's that the Stagecoach Board and Manchester management team will know but no one else.

I would also add that its not been unusual to see buses on Wigan locals with loads of less than 5 on them at various times over recent years thats how bad things had got.

Stagecoach, yes can build on profitability so it pays but it will never be bringing in porfits and passengers other depots bring in for several reasosn which I will highlight as follows:-

1) Car usership is high in Wigan, Much of it because of the working age population, many work well beyond the boundarys of Wigan where its either impracticle to use a bus or its expense because of the number of changes required between different operators, something which will not get easier but in fact worse with Stagecoach's purchase as the number of operators in Wiagn will actually increase as First isn't totally eliminated from the Wigan MBC area.

2) Traffic is heavy in the Wigan area because of the number of cars, therefore bus usership is suffering.

3) Many passengers that do use services but not all are at age extremes either elderley or young pre car driving age.

4) Parts of Wigan are more affluent than other areas of Greater Manchester except say Trafford and perhaps parts of Stockport and Bolton.

5) Wiagn as an area is well spread out its not compact. The 658 route highlights this in that it passes through many area's that are semi-rural such as fields as it progresses between the two towns.

6) The amount of other operators in Wigan makes it harder and also confussing to intending passengers.

7) Large Supermarkets and Internet shopping have badly effected central Wigan and Leigh so the town centres have loads of vacant or low quality retailing in them. For example Leigh a town with about 43,000 now has four large superstores and two smaller ones of which only one of which are directly served by buses and when experiments to operate them have been carried outr by other opertators in the past they have failed, eg people see them for car users alone, also there are large numbers of taxi's going to them with nomne cvar users in them which illustrates that something is wrong.

8) The distribution of information on services is poor, yes people have the internet, and yes there are bus station travel shops and librarys, but it needs greater than that, eg Quarterly door to door colourful time tables and brochures being distributed to houses and also trial cupons, tahts the way you grow something.

9) As of the current moment no FirstGroup buses currently serve the local hospital in Wigan despite it only being litle more than 1 1/2 miles outside Wigan despite the route being hilly, it is left to Arriva to serve it. Hospitals asre a gopod place to pick up passengers.

While I welcome Stagecoaches purchase, I don't hold there optimism as much as they do and you seem to do, things will be extremely expensive and difficult to turn around and the growth rates won't be that big I suspect unless the route network is totally redrawn, similar in Chester and Rock Ferry, a new bus alone won't frankly make that much difference to none bus enthusiasts and the lower fares would have to be noticed before they would entice.