+- Forum | Merseyside Dennis Dart Website (http://dartslf.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Buses (/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Local Bus Scene: North West and Wales (/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan (/showthread.php?tid=28)
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821
RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan - Scania3379man - 23/02/2016 01:21
(22/02/2016 16:45)Scania1996 Wrote: It's 27208 and will be repaired
That brand newish, SL64 oh dear. thank scania1996.
Martyn
RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan - gilbert - 23/02/2016 13:17
(13/02/2016 19:53)Mayneway Wrote: Noted both 19623/33 working on AZ services today so deffiantly at AZ. Was talking to a driver on his break who reckons there's a third but he wasn't sure which one it was. He also suggested some if not all will move to AZ over the next few months to allow for further older Enviro400's to become Magic buses.
Would be good to see younger deckers at AZ and to be honest they have there haters but I don't mind the MAN engined examples.
19633 is on the 378 today
RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan - SF07 - 26/02/2016 18:28
Bit of an upgrade for the 141 service this afternoon as 38-branded Enviro400 19502 was on the route.
RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan - SLTRegular - 27/02/2016 01:57
Sad to hear the 32 is being cut short
RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan - St Helens Rider - 27/02/2016 07:53
(27/02/2016 01:57)SLTRegular Wrote: Sad to hear the 32 is being cut short
Wouldn't it make sense to extend the 34's to Wigan as it's looking like Stagecoach have sort of thrown the towel in with First doing all the Guided Busway services.
RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan - Jack - 27/02/2016 09:27
Bit of a long way round from Manchester to Wigan if it was the 34, the train would be more likely as a direct route and locally the 600 already covers Leigh to Wigan. An alternative could have been the 32 a variation of the 34, as it is at the Wigan end but then following the 34 route to Manchester rather than the East Lancs.
RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan - rod_259 - 27/02/2016 13:46
(27/02/2016 01:57)SLTRegular Wrote: Sad to hear the 32 is being cut short
Maybe I missed the post, how is service changing?
RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan - rod_259 - 27/02/2016 17:06
(27/02/2016 14:27)Dentonian Wrote: Not sure of the exact route, but I'm told it will be current 634 route between Wigan and Belle Green then existing 32 route to Ellenbrook before finding its way to "Roe Green Park'n'Ride", which I assume is near the Guided Busway.Thanks for that
RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan - Mayneway - 27/02/2016 20:14
(27/02/2016 17:39)Dentonian Wrote: This row between TFGMC and the Operators has sprung up again. This time, its TFGMC on the front foot, and having seen the details of April 3rd changes, and noted the Operators' (predictable) response, I have to say that The Operators are losing this battle.
For Stagecoach's part, they have again made no changes at all to services supposedly affected by these cross-city roadworks, confining their (known) changes to self financing (ie. cutting the number of journeys, rather than increasing resources) punctuality tweaks to peak hour services only. Drifting off thread, First are making widespread reductions to commercial services from 3rd April, just as TFGMC feel forced to slash subsidised services.
TFGMC's Chair has gone to the MEN (unfortunately the story just slipped off the website) accusing Operators of making "Super Profits". Stagecoach's reply has been to repeat the cross-city argument, claim that fares have increased below inflation since they acquired GMS in 1996, and are investing an average £5 million a year in "vehicles and services".
As regards the investment, this comes just as its reported elsewhere that the six MMCs diverted to Devon, will NOT be replaced after all, although I doubt Councillor Fender would know that specific detail. The main point though is that at current prices, £5m buys little more than the 25 'deckers a year that are actually here. As Stagecoach Manchester currently have some 800 buses licenced, that suggests an expected vehicle life of over THIRTY years!
I haven't got 1996 fare tables to hand - or can recall the price of off bus tickets 20 years ago - but having done previous calculations based on 1986 (De reg), I know single fares have increased MANY, MANY times the rate of inflation. For the argument to hold water with off bus tickets, then a MegaRider equivalent would have needed to be £8.70 or more, and a DaySaver £2.40 or more in 1996.
First's response was a stock "we continue to work with our partners" comment.
Presumeably, this attack by Councillor Fender has been prompted by First's cuts to commercial services (not listed on any MEN news item) totally unconnected with Leigh Guided Busway, but Stagecoach's "city centre" this, "city centre" that diatribe, certainly doesn't help their cause.
From internal comments I've heard, TFGM (never mind TFGMC) are "angry" that both First (in terms of quantity) and Stagecoach (in terms of quality) seem to be abandoning the districts. I think their anger is heightened because things are deteriorating quickly, just as you'd think the Operators would try to prove Bus Services are better off in a commercial environment.
Remember Stagecoach Manchester's record (single fares apart) was very good from 1996 until probably 2014, and relations with First improved dramatically when off-bus fares were cut across their network and punctuality improved (on some routes, at least) a few years ago.
Arh I wondered why Councilor Andrew Fender was on the radio today spouting on about things getting better in 12 months time and that 'were all in it together' and that him and his colleagues at TFGM are badly affected as they all travel Into work and to meetings by bus and they are often held up and can understand passengers frustration - the big difference being that him and his colleagues travel for free I believe so it would be a little rich if they started complaining.
I seem to remember just after new year Clr Richard Lees making the big gesture by offering motorists free Sunday parking as an apology and that things would improve over the next few WEEKS yet Clr Fender reckons it will be 12 months. Big difference of opinion there.
We need to get back to basics. Things won't improve in a few weeks or months because the very infrastructure we're all relying on is decaying beyond repair - ie the roads. Instead of these daft notions of closing Portland street for bus priority work and the chaos of Oxford Road not to mention the roadworks on deansgate, we need to go back to basics and fix what's broken first ie the roads. Apparently our so called local councils are sitting on big pots of cash that there unwilling to use and instead simply 'Patch and Go'.
In my hometown of Ashton it dosen't get much better. Cash strapped TFGM decide to open a cycle hub outside the bus station, basically a shed with automatic doors, then 18 months on decide it's not attractive enough to cyclists, so on a major route though the town centre (Oldham RD) right slap bang at the bus station exit (Stockport/Manchester), they decide to put up temp lights for 2 weeks while they insert cycle priority crossings/lights. So now the traffic lights chengd to red for motorists, the pedestrian crossing goes green for 45 seconds, then the green light for cyclists lights up for 2 minutes, then the lights for the buses exiting the bus station change to green but because of the very tight corner created by the cycle path bollards the lights allow 2 buses through (if your lucky) then change to red - today I counted 8 buses (7 stagecoach, 1 MCT) waiting to exit. So all these fancy illuminated bollards, funky green Tarmac for the cyclists, not to mention the cyclists traffic lights look really good and expensive yet just yards either way of it the roads are crumbling and full of potholes and sinking manholes.
Then there's the massive issue of badly timed and synced traffic lights everywhere. Infact going back to Ashton again, the new cycle lights outside the baths are so badly timed that when the lights at ikea change to green for traffic coming from Oldham towards what was the asda roundabout there's often cars left blocking the tram tracks - it's not good when we carnt even get 2 sets of traffic lights on the same stretch of road to work in conjunction of each other!
And as for the bigger operators retracting from the suberbs, that's nothing new. Look at Glossop in 2001/2002 with all the mini bus circular services Stagecoach operated from the Glossop depot compared to what they operate up there now, or even Ashton or Hyde. It's frightening to think of the number of services that have completly gone or been cut short so god knows what things will be like this time in 20 years.
Perhaps bus franchising is the future!
RE: Stagecoach Manchester and Wigan - Mayneway - 27/02/2016 21:11
(27/02/2016 20:25)Dentonian Wrote: I think the argument about sitting on pots of cash is to do with "reserves" - partly to do with sinkholes/sewer collapses, flooding etc, and involves all Councils. I accept your point about Cycling, and about Highways problems in general, but a lot of it is to do with the "Capital spending good; Current spending bad" attitude that pervades amongst politicians at all levels. I also suspect that Highways are not happy aboit working with a Transport Authority originbally charged with favouring public transport (of all modes).
Interesting you talk about Ashton, exemplifying delays to (7) Stagecoach buses. The point is that Stagecoach's management/media relations people don't care about that, because Ashton is not in the city centre.
Completly agree regarding the highways etc but depending on the cause of a sinkhole determines who pays for it. The recent small sinkhole in Broadbottom was entirely paid for by united utilities as it was caused by a burst water main- I suspect it was the same re the mancunion way sinkhole. The current situation regarding the roads is like decorating a house internally with no roof on.
I merly used Ashton as an example, Manchester is very much the same. Why slice up a major road and add sets of complicated signals that simply cause further congestion. Im not anti cyclists but unless TFGM are going run cycle lanes seperated by illuminated metal bolards along every major road what's the point, very much like the pointless bus lanes along Oldham road in Ashton that run for small sections then disappear forcing the buses to try and merge into the normal traffic further on, but of curse the tiny sections of bus lanes are covered by cameras and are huge cash cows for the cash strapped councils who refuse to spend any money on the crumbling roads lol - I still haven't established if TFGM receive any revenue from these bus lane cameras.
As for stagecoach, I'm sadly well awear that they only recognise the major services in the city centre as there bread and butter. It's strange that Mr Bowles has been so outspoken on the issue compared to First but I do suspect an alternative reason for it and I wouldn't be surprised if we see small minor fare rises next month as a result of the 'congestion' in the city centre.
Incidentally im a member of the Stagecoah yahoo group as you are Dentionan and read with interest the discussion on the Hyde road MMC's and one members post suggesting all passengers should get use of new buses and that they shouldn't be destined for just one route - clearly he dosen't know Ashton depot where we seem to be going backwards and loosing 08 reg Enviro400's in return for older 06/56 reg examples not to mention the loss of yet 2 more of the 11 plate Enviro200's.