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RE: Manchester bus franchising - Mayneway - 24/02/2023 22:23
(24/02/2023 08:16)Barney Wrote: I visit Manchester on a regular basis - almost weekly - but always use public transport to get there and to move about the city centre. You should try it. It's much better than sitting in a traffic jam all day long.
As for TfGM allowing contractors to carry out road works, what is the alternative? Don't attempt any improvements or upgrades?
I repeat, do you remember bus services prior to deregulation in 1986?
I don’t need to try public transport, I drive it day in day out, in and out of the city centre. I sit at traffic lights that could be so much better timed or phased. Your right about the roadworks but in a city the size of Manchester TFGM should be pushing for the job to be done asap and not dragged out for weeks on end because the contractors only want to work 5 hours a day.
I was very young during the final couple of years of regulated bus services and it didn’t seem any different to how it is now, but I’m lucky enough to work with many old boys to tell good and bad stories about it - but what’s interesting is most of them like me are against it not all for it - that for me says it all!
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Mayneway - 24/02/2023 22:44
(24/02/2023 09:22)Michael Wrote: I remember bus services prior to dereg......waiting over 30 mins for bus that was advertised as every 5 minutes...every morning making me late for work....then when one finally turned up driving past the stop because it was packed to the rafters
I think it’s fair to say the majority of regular bus passengers want a decent ‘reliable’ service that gets them from A to B in a realistic time. Painting a bus yellow, forcing operators to charge a flat fare etc won’t suddenly repair the major issues effecting the bus network. 1, the congestion and poorly planned roadworks and 2, the worsening driver shortages.
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Barney - 25/02/2023 11:06
(24/02/2023 22:23)Mayneway Wrote: I don’t need to try public transport, I drive it day in day out, in and out of the city centre.
I was very young during the final couple of years of regulated bus services and it didn’t seem any different to how it is now,
A much used misquote is: "If you are not part of the solution then you must be part of the problem." Where do you think you sit here?
Let me assure you that by every metric you care to use, bus services were far better prior to deregulation for passengers, employees and the environment. Just look at the facts instead of relying on vague childhood memories.
Again, why is a regulated/franchised bus system the norm in virtually every modern city on the planet but unsuitable for Manchester or anywhere else within the UK apart from London and Northern Ireland?
RE: Manchester bus franchising - NorthernCounties - 25/02/2023 11:45
(25/02/2023 11:06)Barney Wrote: A much used misquote is: "If you are not part of the solution then you must be part of the problem." Where do you think you sit here?
Let me assure you that by every metric you care to use, bus services were far better prior to deregulation for passengers, employees and the environment. Just look at the facts instead of relying on vague childhood memories.
Again, why is a regulated/franchised bus system the norm in virtually every modern city on the planet but unsuitable for Manchester or anywhere else within the UK apart from London and Northern Ireland?
You're forgetting that the old regulated system was eating money for fun, why is why deregulation happened. So far with tfgm it looks like their franchised system will be no different and will again eat money for fun
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Barney - 25/02/2023 13:31
(25/02/2023 11:45)NorthernCounties Wrote: You're forgetting that the old regulated system was eating money for fun, why is why deregulation happened. So far with tfgm it looks like their franchised system will be no different and will again eat money for fun
It is true that under a regulated system it was part funded by public money but the official reason for deregulation was an ideological one and it was argued that it would arrest the decline of passenger numbers which it has clearly failed to do. Look at the evidence.
As for it "eating money for fun" I suggest that you check out how many billions were given to the bus operators during the pandemic and how much the various private rail operators are currently receiving from the state to run an absolute shambles.
If the polls are correct I predict that the rail network will also be taken back into public ownership before the end of the decade. How does that grab you?
RE: Manchester bus franchising - KXW212 - 25/02/2023 14:55
(25/02/2023 13:31)Barney Wrote: It is true that under a regulated system it was part funded by public money but the official reason for deregulation was an ideological one and it was argued that it would arrest the decline of passenger numbers which it has clearly failed to do. Look at the evidence.
As for it "eating money for fun" I suggest that you check out how many billions were given to the bus operators during the pandemic and how much the various private rail operators are currently receiving from the state to run an absolute shambles.
If the polls are correct I predict that the rail network will also be taken back into public ownership before the end of the decade. How does that grab you?
Whatever the outcome, the traffic issues will be there and the bus priorities won't be. A yellow bus can't jump traffic, just as a blue or stripey one can't. You only have to look at the various operators social media to see the delays caused by it, day in, day out. It's not just that city centre either, take a spin on the 22 and see how long it takes from end to end, compared to what is scheduled. Much the same on the Rochdale Road corridor during the peak, or the frequent standstills through Rusholme or Gorton. Soundbites and ideology don't mean reliability.
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Mayneway - 26/02/2023 22:45
(25/02/2023 13:31)Barney Wrote: It is true that under a regulated system it was part funded by public money but the official reason for deregulation was an ideological one and it was argued that it would arrest the decline of passenger numbers which it has clearly failed to do. Look at the evidence.
As for it "eating money for fun" I suggest that you check out how many billions were given to the bus operators during the pandemic and how much the various private rail operators are currently receiving from the state to run an absolute shambles.
If the polls are correct I predict that the rail network will also be taken back into public ownership before the end of the decade. How does that grab you?
You really are deluded.
At the time covid first hit and we went into lockdown I was working for a firm that operated just tendered services. Usage fell and some buses were literally driving around all day completely empty. While commercial services operated by private companies began to be scaled back TFGM were no where to be seen. They had run for home and it took days to get answers from them.
Did you know they had to be legally challenged as they wanted to close and lock up ALL drivers facilities including toilets and hand washing facilities - this is the kind of people who will be running things from September.
And on the mention of covid. How much exactly did regulated London receive during covid and closer to home how much did TFGM’s golden Metrolink require??
Don’t tell me I need a history lesson on our regulated past, it doesn’t matter how well it did or didn’t work, taking back control and giving it to clowns to run and play with is sure to end badly!
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Mayneway - 26/02/2023 22:53
(25/02/2023 14:55)KXW212 Wrote: Whatever the outcome, the traffic issues will be there and the bus priorities won't be. A yellow bus can't jump traffic, just as a blue or stripey one can't. You only have to look at the various operators social media to see the delays caused by it, day in, day out. It's not just that city centre either, take a spin on the 22 and see how long it takes from end to end, compared to what is scheduled. Much the same on the Rochdale Road corridor during the peak, or the frequent standstills through Rusholme or Gorton. Soundbites and ideology don't mean reliability.
Someone who speaks sense.
TFGM and Manchester City council have just set up bus gates on part of deansgate and new Bailey street, yet to get to the bus gate on deansgate you have to sit in bumper to bumper traffic at Victoria bridge and the bottom of deansgate where Harvey Nichols is. So great in theory but makes zero difference.
Let’s put a bus lane along broad street past Salford Uni, only you have to sit in traffic to get to the bus lane, and of course it’s constantly closed completely for roadworks - like at the moment.
The money spent on this crazy scheme could have been better spent improving the infrastructure but of course that will never happen.
RE: Manchester bus franchising - EDB325 - 27/02/2023 08:51
(26/02/2023 22:53)Mayneway Wrote: Someone who speaks sense.
TFGM and Manchester City council have just set up bus gates on part of deansgate and new Bailey street, yet to get to the bus gate on deansgate you have to sit in bumper to bumper traffic at Victoria bridge and the bottom of deansgate where Harvey Nichols is. So great in theory but makes zero difference.
Let’s put a bus lane along broad street past Salford Uni, only you have to sit in traffic to get to the bus lane, and of course it’s constantly closed completely for roadworks - like at the moment.
The money spent on this crazy scheme could have been better spent improving the infrastructure but of course that will never happen.
And that's two of you talking sense.
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Mrboo - 28/02/2023 01:38
Liverpool did the right thing by Removing bus lanes.